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 Why do we open the palm....

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Overlord
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PostSubject: Why do we open the palm....   Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:15 pm

Just throw something i figured out two years ago. But I wont say mine is the gold standard.
Why do internal martial art open the palms, especially the space between the index finger and the thumb?
We see that in xingyi, bagua, taiji or liuhebafa, but why? Question
Let us try some brain storming....
I will post my answer in a week or so.

Over
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nanyangshaolin



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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:19 am

try my luck


1st for direction

2nd for efficient distribution of energy to maximise the strike

hope i am right.
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Vincent



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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:29 am

Try to relax and move your arm in a circular motion and see what is the natural form of your hand.
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Overlord
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:26 am

Vincent wrote:
Try to relax and move your arm in a circular motion and see what is the natural form of your hand.

Nearly! It actually increase range of motion around the wrist.

Anymore?

Over
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kwong
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:48 pm

Razz Ok let me have a go.
In bagua, we believe that when our palm open it, you hand will full fill with power and the tendon between your 5th metacarpal area and wrist joint area will extenend. They said that if you do it for a long time, your index and middle fringer will become stronger.

my personal opinion is that when you do it , it help you to built up your intension force and targeting
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Overlord
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:28 pm

I do not learn bagua much, certainly not an expert on bagua.

From what i guess, bagua has two main types palm shape: one closed (yin bagua); one opened palm (cheng bagua).

With the open palm in bagua, because the palm gives a little bit of twist, making it a spiral seashell kind of shape, thus it tenses up the tendon of the 5th metacarpal area, and so on so on.......like what Kwong was saying.

Thanks for contributing, Kwong. Much appreciated.
Anymore?

Over
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Overlord
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:54 pm

nanyangshaolin wrote:
try my luck


1st for direction

2nd for efficient distribution of energy to maximise the strike

hope i am right.

Sorry nanyangshaolin for the late reply. I really need to think hard about the answer you posted.

Not sure about the direction part, can you explain more for us?

As for the second one, I am not so sure either. It does gives off energy evenly to the whole palm, but for strike, is it not better to have a more focus force instead of evenly distributed force?

Thanks for contribution. Much appreciated.

Over
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nanyangshaolin



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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:57 am

hi overlord

The 1st one means ease of interchangeable direction when striking constantly

the 2nd one is felt when I hit the sand bag

focus point power always in every strike but the palm strike on a human body shd leave a palm print. Twisted Evil

Can you tell us why u open?
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Overlord
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:05 am

nanyangshaolin wrote:
hi overlord

The 1st one means ease of interchangeable direction when striking constantly

the 2nd one is felt when I hit the sand bag

focus point power always in every strike but the palm strike on a human body shd leave a palm print. Twisted Evil

Can you tell us why u open?

o i c, sounds like iron palm, very scary.

By opening the palm, especially the space between index finger and the thumb, you open up the lung meridian and allowing the liver meridian vent the extra qi to lung. This is also why later on xingyi change its pi from fist to open palm. So you calm liver wood qi with lung metal.

Try this, stablize the shoulder joint, elbow joint and the wrist and fully support them on the table, then wiggle your thumb and press the front part of the shoulder, roughly where the lung meridian passed. Feel the wiggle? That is the lung meridian.

If you still are not convinced, tell me. We can do another experiment.

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Shingo



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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:28 am

Interesting...

Can I ask you a couple of questions, Overlord?

I am little confused about your comment on the liver and lung qi.

1) Is the lung meridian stimulated by Qi originating from the liver meridian or the other way round?
2) What is the significance of this phenomenon for internal arts?

Cheers

Shingo
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Overlord
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:16 am

Shingo wrote:
Interesting...

Can I ask you a couple of questions, Overlord?

I am little confused about your comment on the liver and lung qi.

1) Is the lung meridian stimulated by Qi originating from the liver meridian or the other way round?
2) What is the significance of this phenomenon for internal arts?

Cheers

Shingo

Yes, Qi will go to liver meridian then enter the lung meridian.
What is the significance of internal martial arts? Smile It is not our imagery friend oh.
Cheers

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Shingo



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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:39 am

Thank you for the answer to the first question, Overlord.

Sorry but, I would still like an answer to the second question.
Please let me rephrase the second question. Now I understand the open palm with a distance between the thumb and index finger activates the lung meridian and so on. My question is that:

What is the possible effects caused by the direction of Qi flow from the liver to the lung meridian?

I am sure ancient masters considered importance of the angle of the fingers based on Chinese medicine and incorporated this into the fighting forms for some reasons. I am curious to know the reason behind...

Cheers

Shingo
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Overlord
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:07 pm

No worries Shingo,

Have you tried the wiggle things yet?
Have you done zz or stance practice before?
It is easier if you have done this two beforehand, then i tell you.
Yes you are right, lhbf and primordial palm were developed this way, either for health or martial art reasons.

Over
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nanyangshaolin



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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:42 pm

Overlord wrote:
[
By opening the palm, especially the space between index finger and the thumb, you open up the lung meridian and allowing the liver meridian vent the extra qi to lung. This is also why later on xingyi change its pi from fist to open palm. So you calm liver wood qi with lung metal.

Try this, stablize the shoulder joint, elbow joint and the wrist and fully support them on the table, then wiggle your thumb and press the front part of the shoulder, roughly where the lung meridian passed. Feel the wiggle? That is the lung meridian.

If you still are not convinced, tell me. We can do another experiment.

Over

Hi

thank you for sharing. If you dun mind, I have some misunderstanding here.

1. how do metal lung calm liver wood when metal contradict wood? 金克木,肝是木,肺是金,肝旺,肺不但不能阻止和克制,肺还受到牵制

2。the point is 云门穴 or 中府穴?
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Overlord
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:16 pm

Yep! Metal lung counter act liver wood. But if you hold the fist tight, liver wood is excess.
From gate to gate, qimen to yunmen, so it is easier to feel the wiggle around yunmen.
This stage completes the meridian cycle.

So how much are you paying me for this?
Ke ke just kidding.
We are all explorers in this science.

Over
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nanyangshaolin



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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:43 pm

Overlord wrote:
Yep! Metal lung counter act liver wood. But if you hold the fist tight, liver wood is excess.
From gate to gate, qimen to yunmen, so it is easier to feel the wiggle around yunmen.
This stage completes the meridian cycle.

So how much are you paying me for this?
Ke ke just kidding.
We are all explorers in this science.

Over

pardon my limited knowledge of internal arts. if metal counter (destroy) wood, how does it calm wood? sorry I still dun understand the correlation.
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Overlord
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:49 pm

o i c. The way i view it. Counteract is not killing or destroying, it is controlling. So lung does not destroy liver, right?

pardon my shallow understanding in five element theory, but you miss what i am trying to say here. Smile
Have you tried the wiggle thing yet? How did you go? Singa shaolin?

Over
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nanyangshaolin



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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:53 am

Hi overlord

Tried it but not felt anything, I thought the lung meridian point is the pinkie? Think I did the exeriment wrongly. If you dun mind, can we set up time over yum cha or the gatehring & then we can discuss further?
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Overlord
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:24 am

It is my fault, inept in expression. Send you message later.

Over
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kwong
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we open the palm....   Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:14 pm

Yes, let sit down and discuss it together Razz
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